Medium: Jorge Olguin.
Entity that came to talk: Johnakan Ur-El
Interlocutor: Who will communicate?
Johnakan Ur-El: I am Johnakan, the Higher Self of this vessel, and I come to tell you the following thing: We have studied with other Masters of Light the incarnated spirits that live in this blessed planet Earth. And we have perceived that EGO possesses most of the incarnated beings and it’s such a big ballast that prevents their spiritual evolution, it prevents they can grow spiritually.
Most of the Messages of Light get lost because of the need of these people who want to come through obtaining material benefits.
Many people confuse pleasure with happiness. Happiness is only one, and pleasure is divided in two: the pleasure toward material things and the pleasure toward spiritual things.
Pleasure and joy over spiritual things, over elevation, they form part of that happiness, but the pleasure for material things has nothing to do with Happiness, because most of the material pleasures are ephemeral, they are temporary.
This is such a strong, so strong pleasure. Because each human being has such a big ego that he enjoys that pleasure, whether it’s pleasure for money, pleasure to rest, pleasure for power and pleasure for sex.
Maybe they are not completely harmful pleasures. There are lower pleasures such as drugs, alcohol, tobacco, and others, like sadism and masochism, they are already very heavy reactive elements that affect each human being and ego gives place to them in all the cases.
Interlocutor: What you mention, Is somehow related especially with the little response that we have had in all our attempts of spreading these messages among the men of science?
Johnakan Ur-El: It is related to a total indifference. In one of the “Words of the Third Millennium” it’s written that: "Indifference is also Ego."
Interlocutor: But so little reaction, so little interest, isn’t abnormal, to say it somehow?
Johnakan Ur-El: It has already been said that each person looks for his or her own benefit. They are not negative people; they are not people who are dragging big karmas, they are ordinary people that maybe want to move on, but they were not well taught and they learned mistakenly. Then, they worry more for themselves than for the others.
Interlocutor: Does this attitude generate some karma in them?
Johnakan Ur-El: Regrettably this attitude generates them new karmas. They confuse the paths of kindness. They have no idea of what the true kindness means. They think that playing their roles well, as a mother, a lawyer, a doctor, an engineer, they are already conquering the spiritual Kingdom.
Interlocutor: Johnakan, I have sent hundreds and hundreds of e-mails, especially to astrophysicists, astronomers and scientists in general with the telepathic messages of the Higher self of Roger Penrose warning about the mistakes of his incarnated part that even influenced in Stephen Hawking and the few replies I receive were only mockeries. 
It is difficult to understand, but these scientists should have checked thoroughly more the message than the way we received it, I mean through mediumship, they disbelieve totally.
Johnakan Ur-El: Most of the scientists are not only weak-willed as for interest to grow - because the word "disinterested" would not be not well expressed -, but rather they have a feeble skepticism, to such point that they don’t believe in extraterrestrial life because their famous "radio telescope" has not discovered it, then they think that it doesn’t exist.
They reason absurdly thinking that the Absolute made thousands of millions of galaxies with thousands of millions of stars only for one planet, the Earth!
Interlocutor: It’s Impossible for them to be more close-minded!
Johnakan Ur-El: Correct. If you want, we can move on to the questions you have.
Interlocutor: Okay, I have watched some documentaries and I also read in books cases of certain travelers that simply took a deviation, they entered into a place which is not in the maps, they conversed with the villagers, maybe they ate and they spent the night and then they continued their trip.
The strange thing is that later on they talked about their experience to the inhabitants of closer towns and they informed them that that place didn't exist and they considered them as hallucinated people.
These travelers try to repeat the experience,but they are not able to find that place again. In addition, there is the strange fact that the place they had arrived to doesn’t belong to our time, but to one century ago for example.
Johnakan Ur-El: There are two options. We could call to one of them "logical" and to the other "fantastic".
The logical option is that they go to a normal and common town, in the present time, and they are so astonished, so dazzled that in a part of their brain- this is already physical- there is a “clic” and they no longer find it again even though they want it.
In other cases, two things can happen: on one hand, they might have seen a dimensional hole and they can go to a parallel universe or to take a trip through time and travel to a century ago.
the most possible thing is the trip to a parallel universe, because I understand that people have their reasoning and they can ask if there is some newspaper in the area and see if it shows the name of the town and the date, for example 1887.
Interlocutor: You are offering it as an alternative, but according to the story of those travelers the fact is certain and it has happened. Is that so really?
Johnakan Ur-El: Correct, because the planet Earth is surrounded by meridians and energy parallels and in the crossings of those meridians and parallels there are dimensional short circuits and many things can happen there.
Interlocutor: I understand. The second question I have is if those dimensional doors can only be found by chance or there would be some scientific way to find them and enter to those parallel worlds.
Johnakan Ur-El: They can be found scientifically, but this science is not yet developed on Earth, in other planets this science has been developed.
Interlocutor: What is the key to develop it?
Johnakan Ur-El: Quantum physics.
Interlocutor: Is the United States advanced on this aspect?
Johnakan Ur-El: They are advanced in particles and even with some animals. And not only the United States but also Japan.
Interlocutor: Is there something already discovered about what the Tibetan prophesied in one of the books dictated through mediumship to Alice A. Bailey regarding to the discovery of a radio to communicate with the spiritual world or the supra physical planes
Johnakan Ur-El: It has not been achieved yet, but they are trying permanently. They are always experimenting sending waves to the ether- let us call it in this way-. But there is a very big problem: For quantum physics it is easier to send particles to the ultra universes than signals because the particles can be manipulated to surpass the speed of light, but not the waves.
We know that the spiritual worlds are above the speed of light in vibration, for that reason they are called "ultra universes", and waves cannot surpass beyond the speed of light. They do have achieved it with particles, so there is a scientific and real explanation for each thing.
Interlocutor: I understand. Do Alternate universes really exist or you admit them like a possibility?
Johnakan Ur-El: The answer is yes, the alternate worlds exist in the same way as parallel universes exist.
Interlocutor: How many are they and how alternate universes are formed?
Johnakan Ur-El: The alternate universes are infinite and they take place from nanosecond to nanosecond, because they are formed according to each individual's action. And if in this planet there are only 6000 million beings, there are 6000 million beings that are deciding at each instant different things. Alternate universes, in their infinity can only be embraced and understood by the Absolute Eon.
Interlocutor: There is a booklet called "Unknown Worlds" written by Elanio a pseudonym of Candido Victor del Prado which first edition was called "Human and divine," in this book the author narrates his adventures in other worlds, guided by Ela, his twin soul. Is this story related to alternate or parallel worlds?
Johnakan Ur-El: They are experiences that the author might have lived in one of the parallel worlds.
Interlocutor: Then is it impossible to go to those alternate worlds?
Johnakan Ur-El: Physically I don't see it possible, let’s suppose that the subject A makes a determination and automatically he or she becomes subject B who is in an alternate world, from the moment the person changed a decision, he or she already formed an alternate world and the subject B will never coincide in one point because they are in fact alternate.
Being alternate universes, they are different possibilities.
Interlocutor: Could the trips or transfers of Elanio be exclusively mental? I mean that if they happened only in his mind
Johnakan Ur-El: No, it is not feasible. It is known in quantum physics that one can go to a parallel universe because it is parallel, but an alternate universe has to do with decision makings and a decision is another thing.
Interlocutor: in short, the experience of Elanio could have happened only passing to a parallel universe?
Johnakan Ur-El: Correct, it is the only possibility.
Interlocutor: In the supraphysical or spiritual world, how is the issue of time? Does it pass the same as in the physical plane?
Johnakan Ur-El: Time in each one of the planes is always the same. The only one who is out of the "now" is the Absolute.
Interlocutor: How could John Zebedee see the future narrated in the Apocalypse if nobody can see the future, except only for time travelers?
Johnakan Ur-El: It was said already that the Master Jesus and I are twin souls. The Master Jesus also said that before his disincarnation he went to another world to complete another mission and when that mission was accomplished, he disembodied. We were so kindred in many things and I interpret that I was maturing since the Master's death, because I was very young in that time. Then the Christic Energy that took Jesus in the Jordan river also took me.
When that sublime woman Mary disincarnated, I was with such big anguish because I lost two dear beings, first the Master Jesus and then his mother, and most of the apostles got disconnect from each other, I even wrote a series of books that later on were lost, I separated from the family, I fell in a dark night and I began questioning myself many things.
Then I went to Greece. I was persecuted many times, you already know that.
Interlocutor: Yes, of course. Are we speaking about the island of Patmos?
Johnakan Ur-El: Before, before. And the Christic Energy took me. That Christic Energy, the same one that took Jesus, invaded me with its golden ray. The Christ Energy has knowledge, even without being a dimensional Logos in that time. In addition it has contacted with high level entities, not only with Elohim that are in the plane 8, but also with the Essence, of the 9 plane.
The Buddhic Energy and the Christic Energy are not only two of the Highest Divine Energies that exist on this planet, in this galaxy, but in thousands of worlds as well.
Interlocutor: Nothing to do then, with the myopia of the Catholic Church that attributes everything to the Earth?
Johnakan Ur-El: Of course. Many of the ideas in the Apocalypse were spoken in paradoxes and many things were real, but many things were also "adorned" to impress more people.
Interlocutor: But always from the base of real ideas.
Johnakan Ur-El: Sure, otherwise nobody would have paid attention to the stories. I have even achieved that many writings were incorporated into the Bible.
Interlocutor: I consider that the point is clear. Now I want to move on to another question. What is that feeling that apparently human beings have of having already lived a certain situation? This sensation is called in French "Déjà vu."
Johnakan Ur-El: They are like small slits. To us, as spirits, they don't happen, but to the incarnated being they do, and this makes noticeable how limited the physical brain is.
The physical brain, in fact, doesn't have intelligence, but rather it decodes. What happens is that there are privileged brains that decode more than others. For that reason there are small young boys that are geniuses and at their eight years old they have knowledge of Medicine, History, Mathematics, etc.
Déjà vu is a slit of a past life through which certain people in certain circumstances seem to visualize as if they were there before. Maybe they were not there. For example, a person that goes to a town in Argentina and sees suddenly a house so familiar and it happens that the person was in a past life in a similar place maybe in Italy, Sicily; well, It’s not the same house, but another similar. Therefore, this déjà vu this slit made a click, and then the person believes that he or she was there before, but in fact the person was not there.
Interlocutor: But obviously, a circumstance can exist of a person who was in that place before.
Johnakan Ur-El: Of course, but in this case it doesn't have anything to do with the denominated déjà vu.
Interlocutor: Okay, I understood perfectly. Now I have another question. There are many apparitions of people we loved, who are already dead, that helped people. Are they angels or is the person who died the one that somehow appears and helps?
These experiences are narrated permanently in television, and for that reason we know about them.
Johnakan Ur-El: Those events can happen in one in a million cases. Most of the cases are related to the person's imagination who is saved from some extreme circumstance.
Interlocutor: In fact, I am referring to those exceptional cases. For example, my grandson at the moment is two years old, Is he taken care of somehow? If he trips more than he would have to trip usually, Is he helped by angels?
Johnakan Ur-El: Each incarnated human being is protected by a Spirit of Light who can be his guide, like they say in some spiritual centers, and is guarded by an angel. All the incarnated beings, aside from their Thetan or 90% have a Guide Spirit of Light and an Angel, but they respect the person's Free Will, except in exceptional cases, where that person has to complete a certain mission. You already know that I’m the Thetan of this vessel.
There are cases in which beings were about to be run over by a car and suddenly they feel a blow in the back, they move away from the road, and they remain unhurt.
Maybe the Spirit of Light or the angel was who made "focus" in that moment, they can irradiate an energy concentrated on 1 square centimeter, and they push the person- because that can be made-.There are spirits that make focus to attack- because they have to accomplish certain mission, but they are not pending in each moment because that would be a psychotic persecution.
Interlocutor: Do Angelic Entities have the ability or the power to materialize themselves and somehow look like an ordinary person? I ask it because something very punctual happened to me: When I was driving From San Juan to Rioja on a completely deserted road, suddenly I saw in the distance two people making signs for me to stop; when I did it, I saw that they were two creatures, two children of 6 or 7 years and a 5 year-old boy, poorly dressed, but they were clean that was odd to me.
The children requested me only water, showing me a rusty little cup. I asked them if the water was to drink and they answered affirmatively. Then I gave them three bottles of fresh water I had, and I almost had nothing left.
It was really an act of madness because I had to drive more than
Everything was very strange because it was impossible that those children lived in that desert. The children appreciated the water and they left toward a kind of tent that barely had two square meters. A lady that I supposed was the mother of the children greeted me thanking me.
I got out of the car to examine well the scene because it didn't make any sense and although I tried to see life somewhere else, at least a tree, I only saw desert around them under a tremendous sun in the most torrid summer.
Then, I got into my vehicle and I left totally heartbroken because I couldn’t do anything more for them.
Johnakan Ur-El: They were angels.
Interlocutor: Did they become physical?
Johnakan Ur-El: No, they didn't become physical, they were simply spectral figures.
Interlocutor: It is incredible, because I still remember clearly those children, the little cup, their clothes, the alleged mother and the tent and everything seemed totally real. I cannot imagine that what I saw didn't exist.
Johnakan Ur-El: I want to clarify that Angelic Entities, like the spirits of Light or error are traces of light. When they appear in an anthropomorphic form it’s because those angels evidently embodied and later on they disembodied being children, because they had embodied to accomplish a mission and once the mission was accomplished they disembodied. Always, as much the spirits as the angels, when they are allowed to see, they can be seen with their last "shell." Do you understand what I mean?
Johnakan Ur-El: Then, if those angels had never embodied, they would have never been able to show themselves in the way you saw them, as human children.
Interlocutor: Do they always do this when they have to help somebody?
Johnakan Ur-El: Correct.
Interlocutor: The entire incident with those children moved me a lot and it left me a mark for life because I didn’t expect they would ask me water. But the key question is: Why did they appear on the route and exactly in that moment?
Johnakan Ur-El: There were several reasons. For example, to save your life because in that moment you were thinking of other things and you could have fallen asleep and crashed the car because in those moments you were going through ordeals remembering affections, loved people and in that way they returned you to detachment; remember that earthly love is a love of necessity and if suddenly you have a material need with a physical person, you are so fond, too much attached to the physical love, then that apparition somehow slapped your cheeks and they told you: "Well, let’s see if you also turn to the other Love too"
Interlocutor: What you say about my material attachment It’s completely true, and those children really detached me and they returned me to the other Love!... I remember vaguely that later on a truck made me slow down. I believe that it saved my life because after that the front wheel exploded. If that wheel had exploded while I was driving at more than
Johnakan Ur-El: There was a projection in your mind so that you reduce the speed because it was not the moment for you to disembody.
Interlocutor: Was that projection provoked by my thetan?
Johnakan Ur-El: No, the two Angelic Entities did it.
Interlocutor: I have to recognize that they did it very well because I remember everything very real. Moving on to another question, Was the famous "Star of Bethlehem" a UFO as many people say or it was a planetary conjunction?
Johnakan Ur-El: It was a planetary conjunction.
Interlocutor: Nothing to do with UFOS or extraterrestrials?
Johnakan Ur-El: No, but in any case in that time there were space ships that guided travelers.
Interlocutor: But concretely the "star of Bethlehem" was a planetary conjunction?
Johnakan Ur-El: Correct.
Interlocutor: Which were the planets involved in this event?
Johnakan Ur-El: On August 6 of the year 6 BC, when my Master the Illuminated Jesus was born there was a conjunction of three planets of this system, and if now, those who work with computers make the diagram of the sky in that time, they will be able to know this with certainty.
Interlocutor: Another point is clarified. Do the Universal Flood and Noah's Ark have some indication of reality?
Johnakan Ur-El: The flood existed, but it was a small flood that only covered few kilometers beyond where Mesopotamia was.
Interlocutor: So it was far from the idea of a “Universal Flood”.
Johnakan Ur-El: In that time, the word "Universal" was used to express the extension a little farther than Mesopotamia, the flood didn't cover the whole planet, and there was nothing like “Noah's Ark” either. It’s not necessary to imagine two young goats cohabiting with two tigers! This is something of common sense.
Interlocutor: That is to say that all the researches that scholars are doing in the Mount Ararat looking for Noah's Ark are nothing more than a lamentable waste of time?
Johnakan Ur-El: That’s right. The researchers would have to have a little more than common sense. The “Universal Flood” sounds pretty as allegory, but nothing more.
Interlocutor: This is clear. Now I’d like to ask about Moses and the Tables of the law. Is it an entire invention?
Johnakan Ur-El: No, it is not an invention. The fact happened. Moses had communication with the Eloah Jehovah, and the Tables were perfectly sculpted by Moses, this thing was no extraordinary event because it was the custom of that time to record the laws and other facts.
The Tables of the law were a self-centered communication from Jehovah, where he asked to be worshipped.
Interlocutor: I understand. And the famous "the thorn bush burned with fire” Was it Moses invention perhaps?
Johnakan Ur-El: No, because Jehovah had the power to make it, in the same way that angels made you visualize in your mind many things.
Interlocutor: Who was in fact Moses?
Johnakan Ur-El: Moses was a Spirit of Light of the 5º plane, but he had many doubts and, well he ended up subjected to Jehovah.
Interlocutor: Is he incarnated at the moment?
Johnakan Ur-El: No, he is not. Moses was such a higher entity that he wanted to save his people, although selfishly, because he loved them possessively. Jehovah appeared before him many times, but in a very self-centered way requesting homage, and he doubted many times because he had another idea of what A God should be in fact.
Anyway, let us remember the time, and let us remember that Moses, being incarnated, even though his Thetan was in the 5 vibration plane, he didn't stop being a very rudimentary person in many things, and suddenly an image appeared before him and tells him imperatively how he should proceed and then of course he was going to obey.
Interlocutor: How about the famous parting of the waters of the Red Sea, Was it real? I ask it to know if there was extraterrestrial intervention.
Johnakan Ur-El: No, there was no such parting of the waters. There was a time of severe drought though, where there was a lot of dry land and little water.
Interlocutor: That is to say that nothing miraculous or magical happened then? No “Divine power "power or extraterrestrial "intervention?
Johnakan Ur-El: That’s right. This is one of the many things in which people have fantasized.
Interlocutor: Good, another clarified point. Was the Ark of the Covenant some extraterrestrial machine?
Johnakan Ur-El: Yes, absolutely. The Ark of the Covenant was an extraterrestrial device that later on was put out of order by terrestrials due to wrong use.
Interlocutor: But which was its true purpose?
Johnakan Ur-El: It was a machine that provided food to the people of Israel. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist a word to describe it in terrestrial language. One could say that it was a “duplicating device of food” with radioactive base. Now, at the present time that machine would be obsolete to the extraterrestrials, because they have built more sophisticated and better machines.
Interlocutor: Were the Jews fed in that way during the whole time they were in the desert?
Johnakan Ur-El: That’s right.
Interlocutor: It has nothing to do, then, with the multiplication of loaves and fish performed by Jesus?
Johnakan Ur-El: No, no, not at all.
Interlocutor: But, was that multiplication real?
Johnakan Ur-El: Yes, it was. The Master Jesus was able to manage transubstantiation and he could perfectly bring out food and objects from parallel universes assisted by the Christic Energy.
Interlocutor: Does the Ark of the Covenant still exist? For instance as a relic in some place?
Johnakan Ur-El: No, categorically NO. It was a machine that was destroyed more than two thousand years ago due to wrong handling and it even caused many deaths.
Interlocutor: Another question I have is related to the famous construction, called Coral Castle, allegedly built by a single man,(Ed Leedskalnin) but nobody can imagine how he could build it with so much precision in the place where those rocks are that even weigh many tons, something impossible to be achieved with the current technology.
Johnakan Ur-El: There was extraterrestrial intervention.
Interlocutor: And the reason?
Johnakan Ur-El: Only to help him. Keep in mind that extraterrestrial intervention is not always for transcendental things. They sometimes help simply because they want to; there is no other explanation beyond the desire of helping somebody.
Interlocutor: to what extent the spirits or if one wants the aliens, physically I mean they can modify the physical plane. Would they, for example, make appear a castle, with its moats, towers, canyons, furniture, etc., and later on, if they want to make it disappear?
Johnakan Ur-El: The physical aliens can do it, obviously with machines. But the spirits, even if they are high level Entities cannot do it. The only thing that the Spirits can do is to "enter", to the person’s mind always with permission of the beings of Light, obviously, to create an illusion.
Interlocutor: From the spiritual world, Physical things cannot be created then?
Johnakan Ur-El: No, such power doesn't exist.
Interlocutor: And what about Sai Baba who says he does it?
Johnakan Ur-El: He manages with transubstantiation, but with very small things, and also very exceptionally.
Interlocutor: I want to be completely sure about the answer: From the spiritual world nothing can be created in the physical plane?
Johnakan Ur-El: No, we are not able to do it, except for small thing, I repeat, making "focus" which is concentrating the energy.
Interlocutor: Then, you can manipulate the mind.
Johnakan Ur-El: I repeat that yes we can manipulate the mind of a person, always for good and with permission, in order to make the person see things that don't exist in reality.
Interlocutor: Just like what happened to me in the route?
Johnakan Ur-El: Exactly. I will leave because another Entity will answer the rest of the questions.
Interlocutor: Okay. See you later, Johnakan, and thank you. It refers to the messages of Roger Penrose’s thetan about the Big Bang Theory and the Big Crunch Theory that Scientists dismissed completely.
Continue Ron 08/DEC/2000
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