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If the Universe has an edge, What is beyond that border?
Medium: Jorge Raul Olguin.
Interlocutor: Manuel M.
Entity that came to dialogue: Master Morganel.
Morganel: I feel joyful to be again with you. I feel - truly - with enough enjoyment of being able to share not only the knowledge, but also what one goes discovering time after time, moment after moment. Mysteries in fact, do not exist; they are simply a lack of data about certain topic. Once one has the data or the information about a certain topic, it already stops being a mystery. Nothing in this universe is mysterious; it is simply unknown to our perception, until one deepens on what one wants to know.
In the Spiritual world of the Light Beings there are no societies; all of us work united based on service for those who precisely need that orientation, consolation or whatever would be useful from our plane. However, sometimes working in teams produces better results because as well as you in the physical plane can have a scientific achievement exchanging ideas with other colleagues- keeping in mind the comparison- I, Morganel, with my dear brother Johnakan Ur-El are doing the same thing.
We are not being reluctant to give you all the information we have based on what we are investigating because it would not stop being a concealed hostile act, somehow; Johnakan, my brother, said: "The wisdom which is not shared becomes rotten inside oneself - intellectually speaking. But just like there are birds that have their pigeons and they feed them with the food you know as ‘pigeon milk’ so that their pigeons can eat from the parents the elaborated food - I repeat – we, sometimes, do the same thing with that knowledge. We don't give it to you as it is, but rather we previously elaborate it, we consider it just to see if the extent of our senses are not deceiving us, like when we reached the border of what would be the Everything and we approached - conceptually speaking - to what would be the Chaos.
And it is certain that there are creatures there and with all the Love we contacted some of those creatures. We cannot be judgmental because we exactly teach those beings that are in the Path not to prejudge. The little they could transmit to us in the short contact we had with them is that they call themselves "The Primordials." They said that they always existed and that they perceived themselves older than the oldest spirits; that they are fed of the energy - in this case would be translated “emotions” - of those beings that inhabit the Everything; emotions produced by the ego.
We ask them conceptually if they believed that there was a Creator, who had created them, outside of what would be our Creation and they said: "No, we believe in somebody who shaped us; but did not create us." and giving a very terrestrial example, it would be as though a patternmaker worked with clay and he shaped figures.
Then, there is a patternmaker. And although conceptually It doesn't have a name - because it is a vibration like us- in fact we don’t have a name either- but we appear before you with a name so that you know how to name us - they interpret their patternmaker as “Demiurge.”
Now you may notice something, in some writings of Sun 3 the word "Demiurge" exists, in some schools like "Creator", in other schools like “Patternmaker”, in other schools like God himself and in other schools like God’s rival; in other schools like the Lord of Chaos, or as the Lord of Darkness and in other schools, like a “White Deity”. But that was the way in which these beings called primordials presented the Demiurge.
Also notice that with the dear brother Johnakan, we always say that the pieces of the puzzle have to fit with each other, and also from the beginning of human history, in Sun 3, it was said about Primordial beings even without having the knowledge we have because we will never be entitled of being the first researchers on the topic because we are not, or else we would be pedantic if we believed that. Yes, we are the beings who want to finish off the topic, but the information we have is minimal.
We know that they are beings that have been shaped outside of this cosmos, beings who are absolutely apart from the series of Big Bangs and Big Crunchs, we know that they belong to the Chaos, to what many consider the Nothingness - because as the dear Johnakan says "the language is poor"- since in fact the word "Nothingness” according to the language of this vessel would mean that indeed there is nothing, but in this Chaos beyond the Everything there is something, there are some beings that hide a lot, beings who antagonize, I don't know if they antagonize with each other or with the rest, but they are fed with the energy of the spirits, the angels and the incarnated beings, but not any kind of energy, only the emotional egotistical energy; that is to say, those beings who are imbued in Love in their feelings, the primordials don't have anything to extract from them.
If we compared these primordial beings with demons? I would say -No- because the demons are also the sons of the Creator of the Everything. That being of Love whose name is called Eon.
Then here, as many times Johnakan said it, there is a pun again. Eon is the creator of the Everything, but outside of him there is a Chaos where there is another creation or other creations; we don't know! Because saying “we don't know" is humility. However, as well as before I had the pun that in the Nothingness there would not be life – energetic, physical, or whatsoever- then, only the Chaos is not the Nothingness literally speaking; this on one hand, because there is life, in whichever way it is, but then, Eon is not the Creator of "Everything" because "Everything" would also embrace that Chaos and that Chaos is beyond the Everything. Then returning to the pun, Eon is the creator of Everything, but there is something further on where Eon is not the Creator. But as well as we did discover this, how do we know that there are no other universes, other Eons and someone else above Eon?
This is theoretical because we are also spirits and inside our investigation - the same as some earthly investigators - we ended up understanding that the more we learn, the less we know, and again - it is a pun -, but it is like that and it is real.
We tried to ask conceptually these beings we contacted with about the Demiurge’s identity, the Patternmaker, and if all of them are fed of the energy of those spirits who are in crisis or those incarnated beings that are in crisis: Does the Demiurge need of feeding?: "He doesn't need feeding because he is the manifested "Chaos.”
And there I had the feeling and also my dear brother Johnakan had it of seeing like a kind of a mirror because Eon is manifested in the physical universe and in the superphysical universes and the Demiurge is manifested in the Chaos. Now; is the Chaos physical or superphysical? For what we perceived it is not physical, it is superphysical; there is no physical Chaos, at least we did not succeed in perceiving it. It is a superphysical Chaos; I mean, it cannot be perceived with the physical senses or with physical technological devices because the Chaos is superphysical.
And the following question which was not responded remains unanswered -for that reason I say how limited the knowledge is that little by little we are incorporating it - : If the Chaos is superphysical and the primordial beings are superphysical, can they embody?, where?, in the Everything?, in the cosmos we know?, or is there something outside of this cosmos that we don't know? Are there a superphysical Chaos and a physical Chaos altogether as well as there are superphysical and physical universes? Do the primordial beings compete with the demons of the superphysical universe? Are they absolutely independent or they are bothered and do not interact with each other? Are they indifferent to each other? Do they damage in the same way? Because somehow the demons are "useful" for the evolution of the embodied beings, with their temptations; they play a function losing their memory to fulfill the role of demons that in this part of the universe there are 72. I don’t mean that they are 72 demons in total; there are thousands of demons in each part of the universe. Then if the demons fulfill the function of tempting, so that through the pain, through the learning, the embodied being ascends, What function do the primordial beings fulfill?
Obviously we asked them that. The answer was a total indifference. They only are fed of the egotistical energy of the embodied beings incarnated in the Everything, as well as the egotistical energy of those non-incarnated beings, but those who are in crisis, like those beings of the plane 2, or the plane 3 or the plane -2 (Eighth sphere) which is a plane of total pain and all of them are blinded perceiving the pain of thousands and millions of beings conceptually as if it were their own pain.
I also ignore - because they were not necessary precise on that - if they can be contacted with beings of the plane -1 (Plane of solitude.) By coherence, by common sense I would say No, because for that reason it is the plane of solitude, because it is isolated from everything and everybody. I suppose that the only one that has imperium to reach the plane -1 is Eon, but I have to admit with humility that the more I embrace in my knowledge, the less I know and I have more doubts because now with all due respect and all the Love that I have for Eon - and Eon offers to me obviously, because He is the Love manifested - I have doubts even about Him, how far He can act, even how He can act. I have doubts of the meaning of Everything of what it is and if Everything is the correct word. Johnakan already said it many years ago that everything is relative and things are not as we perceive them, neither you, as physical beings nor us as spiritual beings. There is something beyond and we will see it as while we go evolving and the more we embrace, the more complicated the thing is.
We are trying to investigate how life is, how organized the life in the Chaos is because we have a mistaken example of the word itself. We imagine the Chaos with disorganization but I have not perceived disorganization. I did perceive what you in the physical plane would call wickedness, cruelty; the fact of damaging to damage only, the indifference for the indifference itself, without paying attention to the consequences. Then I attempted in a conceptual effort to compare a primordial being with a demon and I perceived… and I apologize if my expression is not correct, I perceived a demon like a very naive being because after all a demon is fulfilling a mission without being aware of it; it doesn't rest cruelty to the demon what I am saying, it doesn't rest cruelty at all, but I perceived a demon as if it were “compelled" somehow to fulfill that mission because in this part of the universe, it is Lucifer or Satan who didn't lose the memory and who fulfills his mission taking his hosts to tempt and try that that being reacts and overcomes that temptation and he/she ascends.
And since the language is poor and the comparison is absolutely terrible - and I admit it - but I compared the demons with the sheep that are taken by their nose rings or to the cattle that are tied to their nose rings. For that reason I say that it is a very poor comparison. Because it is not necessary to rest merits to the cruelty, merits against it, not to the cruelty of the demons, but somehow they are fulfilling a mission given by Eon, which is difficult to digest for many: How the being, who is Love, has particles of indifference? How the being who is Love "commands" - because there is Free Will, but after all they are fulfilling that mission; so I do say "commands" beings to tempt in their infinite Love? I mean that Love also comprehends temptation, perversion, comprehends all of that? Yes, it comprehends all of that because Love has more than one aspect and Love is more complicated than what an accustomed being thinks about what that feeling is.
And I will leave you with my brother Johnakan, who also wants to give his point of view through his own 10%, - figuratively speaking- because we don't have sight, we would say his conceptual point of view.
Interlocutor: Thank you.
Johnakan Ur-El: Dear Brothers, I am here with you to transmit somehow my concept, my humble concept on what we have perceived with the dear brother Morganel referred to these beings called “the primordials” or at least they are known in that way. They are beings that don't fulfill a commended mission. They are beings that have their own way to see things or perceive things. What I humbly perceived is that they are - at this time - parasites of our world because they are fed of the pain. That means that they are also fed from us, who are in the plane 5º, and we suffer for those beings, because pain is an emotion and although I myself have said many times through this vessel that Love is a pure feeling, the impersonal Love, and it doesn't participate from the emotion, at this time, without correcting me, I want to add that as much as in the Mastery plane 4 as well as in the plane of Light 5, we suffer for the others and suffering is an emotion. Then, these primordial beings not only are fed of the roles of ego from the denser planes, but rather they are also fed of the pain that we feel even for themselves, for being as they are. But it doesn't matter to them.
However, this doesn't end here; they have the ability - we want to deepen more on the topic - we’ll see it with time if, as every action has a reaction, also there are actions that can be neutralized and since they have the possibility to enter into the Everything and end up reading the concept of those beings that dwell in the planes of error and increase their fear, because contrary to the demons who can be fed of the emotions, they also are fed of emotions, but their main plate - as well as you in the physical plane prepare a banquet to yourselves or a dish - their main dish is not the ego nor the pain; their main dish is fear, the absolute fear and they know how to provoke it, they know how to provoke fear and they provoke it in many beings.
I contact myself periodically with this beautiful Angel called Kar-El who is incarnated, and Kar-El commented – to me and my brother Morganel - that Love is the antidote, the pure Love. That giving to others, it is the pure Love against those beings. Love is the protection. So I believe fervently in the words of Morganel when he says that we have to keep investigating in order to deepen on the topic.
And I respect the "words" of Kar-El tremendously when it says that Love is the antidote. I have said - many years ago - that euphoria protects against negative vibrations in the physical plane. And it was verified by my 10% incarnated when someone threw at him a negative vibration of death and since he was imbued in euphoria that vibration reached another partner provoking a cardiovascular problem to him. That was caused for the apostle number thirteen, who today is embodied in the physical plane, and in that occasion he was trying to sabotage the mission of this vessel. I speak of eleven years ago.
It is true that when one acquires more knowledge the more doubts one has, because when one believes to know everything, one feels like safer. Our security is different from your security in the physical plane because when you in the physical plane say: “I feel safe" it means that you are preserved from some danger. In our case, when we say: “we feel safe", we feel confident conceptually of what we have incorporated to our knowledge because what we try is to digest that nutritious food in order to give it to you - like the bird does with their pigeons - like always Morganel has affirmed and today he has affirmed it once again.
We try not to give you the information as it is, but we try to filter it first, we evaluate what we truly receive, but we can’t wait a long time to do it either; then, we are giving what we are receiving. The same word "primordials" is not a word that you ignore because there are many of your writers of the contemporary time that have written essays – mistaken or not- because there are very good writers on the topic who have given them a monstrous aspect, aquatic shape, in shape of insects, some in a ghastly shape, but in one thing they were right: In the tremendous wickedness that animates those primordial beings and how they are fed with the fear of the living beings of the physical plane. Evidently the great majority of the writers have the gift of mediumship and although they are creative, they feel many things from the superphysical world.
What I want to continue investigating along with my brother Morganel is related to the purpose of the Demiurge because the purpose of Eon the same Father has expressed it more than once: is that each universe vibrates a higher octave and that the created spirits ascend, we emit such a pretty energy, which would be the cause so that each explosion be a higher octave of vibration in each universe.
I have also wondered many times if theoretically Eon has all the power - in whichever way- why Eon need of us to raise an octave that next universe, if He perfectly can do it without us and do it by himself. Why He has created us; if He is sublime, He is contained in himself, He doesn't need of company. He is not like a spirit of the plane -1, who is agonizing - conceptually speaking, yes? Because the spirit does not agonize - in solitude, because we cannot be in the Absolute’s thought since the solitude is also part of Him.
However, the same word "Absolute" now loses its meaning knowing that beyond the Everything there is something that was called the Nothingness, but we conceptually know that it is not the nothingness because there are creatures over there and they are much darker than the demons are and they are much older and we can’t know for sure which the purpose of those creatures is, as long as we don't know the purpose of the Demiurge.
Obviously we attempted to reach it with our concept - and I will give you a pathetic example: It was like the fisherman in a river who throws the fishing reel in the distance with the fishhook and the bait - but we didn't fish anything obviously; or we didn’t’ reach it with our limited poor concept or perhaps we reached the Demiurge and the Demiurge shut down its conceptual curtain and doesn't say anything or we are not in time yet.
But it is a challenge, a challenge in the good sense. Because what we want for you is to bring Light and the only way of bringing them Light - and I say it in the more coherent possible way - the only way to give you Light is to put an end to the Darkness. Thank you.
Interlocutor: Thank You, Johnakan.
Medium: Jorge Raul Olguin.
Interlocutor: Manuel M.
Entity that came to dialogue: Master Morganel.
Morganel: I am here once again communicated with you. My name is Morganel. As usual, it is a pleasure on my conceptual behalf, I have the pleasant company of the sublime Johnakan and also supervising and accompanying are Inam-El and Kar-El, Angelic Entities. Although all the Entities of Light and the Angelic Entities plead for Service – Which is Love at work in the physical plane and in the Spiritual plane it is Love in action -, investigating, finishing details, mentioning new topics, deepening old topics. It doesn't stop being also a service, which can be futile for many because they are conformable to what they have, to what they are and it is fine that it is like that - because each one is free to choose, that’s what the divine Free Will is for - but in my case my vibration "pushes" me to keep investigating. I avoid being simply one vibration more – energy vibration - floating among the planes; figuratively speaking. I suppose that each investigation, each answer, each question, each solved doubt or at least somewhat clarified will be useful to incarnated beings that are in the Path. Perhaps it won’t help them to do a bigger service or to be better beings - because that already depends on their own spirits - but it will be useful to know - and here I use an earthly jargon - to know where they are standing.
My dear 10%, I invite you to start with the questions.
Interlocutor: Very well, Morganel. First, I would like to make some conceptual precisions about the Vacuum, the Everything, the Nothingness, On how we understand those concepts in physics. I will expose those concepts in the way I understand them from my point of view and from my formation as a physicist.
In accordance with the concepts developed in quantum physics, we understand that Everything is space, time, energy and matter; being the matter only a form of energy. Vacuum is the absence of matter; I mean in fact the non-presence of matter. Nothingness is the total absence of everything, in fact it’s the non-presence of space and time and the non-presence of energy and matter. The Vacuum it’s something. The Vacuum is a partial absence of Everything. The Vacuum is in fact space, time and energy. The Nothingness is not something. The Nothingness is the total absence of Everything. The Nothingness is in fact no-space, no-time, no-energy and no-matter. That’s what I wanted to clarify.
Morganel: It is correct. It is really like that. I will be responding partially and please, then you continue with the questions – From each Big Bang the universe expands, but in fact it doesn't expand on the Nothingness, it is said the Nothingness figuratively so that we can be understood by most of the people without giving more abstract and more complicated terminology.
The Big explosion makes that that "almost" infinite amount of matter in a "almost" null point makes that that universe goes expanding to towering speeds with a constant of acceleration over a "something", that we could call Chaos. Although when the dear Johnakan explains "At the beginning it was the Everything over the Nothingness” let’s take this sentence like something figurative. We could say "At the beginning there was the Everything surrounded by Chaos." When the Big Explosion takes place that Everything is expanded over that something called Chaos, because if the Nothingness is considered like the absence of Everything, even of the same Vacuum, even of the same time would be an abstract figure, unreal, not possible, under no possible point of view because time always existed and Vacuum also existed.
Interlocutor: Then we’ll see if we understand these concepts, Morganel. We understand that our universe is finite and it’s expanding over a primordial Vacuum that you, Morganel, called the Chaos. We understand that the Chaos is properly quantum emptiness; there only can exist space, time and energy. As we can see, the Chaos is not the Nothingness because it is space, time and energy. It is only the absence of matter. A question that arises immediately is: now that our universe is finite - is This universe over a sea called Chaos? Is the Chaos infinite? Should we understand the Chaos as infinite?
Morganel: Within my coherence I perceive it like infinite.
Interlocutor: Is the Chaos the absoluteness? The uncreated thing?
Morganel: I wouldn’t say that it’s the absoluteness, I would say that it is the uncreated thing. And I say it with my coherence in the sense that if that Chaos had a limit we would wonder what there is beyond that limit. That limit is made of what: Made of condensed energy? Or another matter? A matter that comprehends everything? It sounds very illogical or - as you would say - very childish.
Interlocutor: It would be a chain regression to the infinite. Why should our universe be the only privileged? Is our universe only an island over the infinite sea of Chaos? How do you perceive it?
Morganel: We consider it like there were big different Explosions that have ended up forming several isolated universes and from that knowledge arises - somehow – the theoretical physical knowledge about the bubble universes.
Interlocutor: Are these islands over the Chaos what we should understand then as "what was created?" Are those universes, those islands over the infinite sea called Chaos what we should understand as "creations?"
Morganel: The creation is the manifestation or the manifestation of who we denominate The Absolute, The Father, The Creator, Eon.
Interlocutor: Well then, we can move on to other questions. We understand that Eon is the unit of conscious energy of the highest hierarchy in our universe.
Morganel: Correct. That’s right because always - and here I will speak in an understandable way - we threw our conceptual pseudopods as if it were a conceptual fishing reel to try to grasp, as if it were a gigantic antenna, trying to perceive another thought and up to now we have not achieved it. The only vibrational concept that we have perceived is the one of Eon above everything.
Interlocutor: Then Eon Would be an energy unit of the highest hierarchy in our universe?
Morganel: Known by us. I say that Eon is the highest conscious energy in this universe since this universe is his manifestation. Then, for common sense, for coherence, if the universe is his manifestation, Eon has to be the highest hierarchy.
Interlocutor: Very well. Then the other question is: Could there be other Eons in other universes over the infinite sea of the Chaos, who might be exactly what Eon is in our universe as well?
Morganel: It could be. I ignore that. I really ignore it in the sense that it’s the “farthest” as I perceived - I say it between quotation marks because if Eon is inside of you, Eon is inside of me also; I am also his manifestation - then the word "farthest" is so that you understand me in the spoken language. I wouldn’t have to give so many explanations if my Interlocutor could receive me conceptually. Then, when I say "farthest" I refer to the magnitude with which I am trying to connect me and I cannot connect myself beyond Eon.
I understand that Eon is also manifested in several universes; so if there were a cluster of your fruit that you call grape, imagine then that each grape was a universe, there is a cluster of universes. I interpret humbly that they all are manifestations of Eon, the Absolute. That doesn't rest that beyond our humble, small and limited perception there are other unreachable universes to our senses where another being similar to Eon or not has been manifested.
Interlocutor: Then, in those universes that the Masters have revealed us, those 22 parallel universes, this Eon would be the highest hierarchy?
Morganel: Sure, the parallel universes don't have anything to do with the bubble universes. The parallel universes belong to this universe, which is divided in 22 parallel universes and at the same time they can be subdivided in alternate universes according to decision makings taken based on Free Will, but everything is part of a single package - speaking in an understandable language - the 22 parallel universes, the superphysical planes of the 22 parallel universes, the superphysical planes of the alternative universes. Why do I refer to that? Because according to the Master Johnakan, we, as thetans, can embody even in a 30%; that is to say that you can have another "you" in another universe, you can have an option that you have taken and form an alternate universe and a third alternate universe. Then, I, Morganel, I could be as a 70% and there may be three other "you’s" in different alternative universes. Do you follow me?
Interlocutor: Yes, I’m following.
Morganel: But let us suppose that this vessel, Jorge, opts - or to the last moment he doesn't opt – about a certain task or certain trip and he forms an alternative universe in which you exist. That "you" would not be any of the 10%’s of the three alternative universes that you have opted, it would be Jorge's alternative universe, and they would be Jorge's alternative universes. Then you, as a biological unit, can be in dozens of alternative universes created by beings that know you and they have incorporated you into their universes. That doesn't mean that I’m disintegrated, as a thetan or spiritual part in dozens of 10%’s because it is not like that, no.
Interlocutor: The topic about parallel universes is really a very disturbing topic, we would like to...
Morganel: I am speaking about alternate universes. In the parallel universes can exist other "you’s" with other thetans, who are not me. In the parallel universes there are other spirits, it can be another "you" who is devoted to another task; the 90% can be cruel, it doesn't have to be exactly like me, similar to my aspirations, my desires, my desire of investigating, it can have another attitude, it can contaminate to its 10% with another attitude. Parallel universes where you have not embodied directly because your parents did not meet each other, but that doesn't form a paradox because it is a parallel universe and the word "parallel" means that they never join.
Interlocutor: Yes, they never join. That’s more or less the conceptual meaning that parallelism has to us.
Morganel: Exactly.
Interlocutor: Very well. We would like it then, in some other occasion... what I would like to deepen...
Morganel: What I would like to take advantage in another occasion - but we surely won't make it today because I know that you have other questions and other queries is :what animates, what spirit animates, what percentage animates your other “selves” in the different alternate universes not created by you? Because those that are created by you have three options and there is 30% but those that have not been created by you, those that have been created for your relatives or friends who incorporated you by knowing you - everybody does it - there would be dozens and dozens that would surpass the 100% spirit, then what I need to investigate is what animates those other "selves" – so-to-speak, those other 10%’s.
Interlocutor: It is an interesting investigation, Morganel. We would like to share it later on...
Morganel: And obviously we’ll share it!
Interlocutor: least part of that investigation.
Morganel: I’ll leave it there, so that you don't forget to ask about it in future sessions.
Interlocutor: Yes. Thank you. We won't forget that; it also interesting. Is Eon a conscious finite being? How would you respond that question?
Morganel: I respond something that you already know: Eon is incommensurable and He occupies all his Creation. I even go farther: The Father said that He was his entire manifested universe and that pat of Him was outside of that manifested universe, but we don’t know what there is "outside." We can ask him. However, I consider humbly that He is a finite being for a simple reason: He expands in the Everything, He doesn't expand over the Chaos, He is manifested from his vibrational level, He is manifested in this universe, in the parallel universes, in the alternative universes, in the superphysical universes and He goes expanding over the Chaos, but He doesn't occupy the Chaos; therefore He is finite.
Interlocutor: Doesn’t Eon occupy the infinite sea of the Chaos, as we have said?
Morganel: No. He doesn't occupy it. I believe it humbly - and now you can continue with your lucubration – I do believe humbly that there would not be anything that prevents him to occupy it because if we said in a certain moment - and this an unconcluded topic that would be important to finish it off at some point - that each vibration is potentiated somehow and - don't take the word “potentiated” as such – it enlarges the figure of the speed of the spiritual displacement in each vibration plane, I don't have how to imagine with my humble lucubration the displacement of Eon; on the other hand, more than once we have wondered if Eon is moving, and the same Eon has answered us more than once "I am, I don't need to move because I am."
Anyway, with all due respect to the Father, his answer is unfinished, I don't say incorrect, but unfinished because I would ask him: "Dear Father, where are you? Are you in the manifested universe and are you outside of the manifested universe within your vibrational plane? Whether or not you like it dear Father, You are also occupying a vibrational plane, but you said that you are not in the Chaos, therefore you do have to move if you want to enter into that Chaos. And in fact, I don't believe that there is anything preventing him to do so. He can, somehow, be contacted with that other being that inhabits the Chaos, the so-called Demiurge.
Interlocutor: We would like to clear some things up exactly related to the Demiurge. We understand that being energy in the Chaos - we said that the Chaos was space, time and energy, because it is a primordial Vacuum - we understand that being energy in the Chaos, this can have conscience or not.
The dark matter understood by the physicists here in Sun-3. That dark matter would be beyond the frontier of the well-known universe it can be that it is only non-conscious energy. And the conscious entities that you, Masters, have visualized in the Chaos they could be the primordial beings. Could the primordial beings be conscious units of energy?
Morganel: Correct, but the dark matter and the dark energy are inside the manifested universe, not outside, they are not beyond, they are inside the detectable universe, they are simply undetectable for you, but they are part of it, they interact with the universe to such point that thanks to the dark energy – while I say this, take it with a grain of salt - it is like it made the antigravity effect and it goes creating an expansion that every time goes accelerating more. I say: “take it with a grain of salt” because it is not exactly antigravity, it is not exactly an antigravitational virtue, I don't call it force otherwise it would be understood that gravity is a force and gravity is not a force, for that reason I’m careful not to say the word force. It is a virtue like antigravity sometimes, but it is not like that and the dark matter has not been detected yet. Theoretically it will be in the future like a force that will support gravity to contract - when it arrives to a limit "x" – that universe in order to form the next Big Crunch. But they are inside the well-known universe, those two forces or that force and that matter.
Well. The primordial beings are obviously conscious energies that inhabit a superphysical plane independent from the spiritual and angelic superphysical planes of the well-known universe, but they have the capacity, they have the power to interact with us to such point that they are fed of our fear, of our pain. When I say "our", I am not speaking only about me, but I am speaking of all the spirits and all of the beings embodied in all the worlds, and they don't do it with a necessity of survival because in the same way Johnakan has said it more than once that there are spirits of error that are fed of the energy of the incarnated beings. Suddenly a spirit of error stays closer to a incarnated being who has bad habits and if that incarnated being smokes, the spirit of error at the same time smokes with him, mentally, conceptually, do you understand what I mean?
Interlocutor: Yes I do understand.
Morganel: However, the spirit of error doesn't have any need or any necessity to suck energy; there are beings that suck energy - spiritual beings - there are beings who believe conceptually that they are satisfied sexually, there are beings who believe they can smell a meal, they are deceived conceptually, beings who directly are in the plane 1, beings of the plane 2, or the plane 3 who have a tremendous spiritual attachment and they perceive a roasted meal and it is like they enlarge their alleged taste buds, which in fact they don't have them because it is a conceptual lie of them, which was created by them, and they believe they can smell, they believe they can taste.
That is a concept, but in fact they don't need to be fed of a certain energy because they have the Father's energy, which in fact they don’t need it either because the spirits don't need of another source of energy to subsist like in the case of embodied beings like you who need of food to survive.
With the primordial beings happens exactly the same thing; the primordial beings directly - and this was consulted many times with Johnakan - it gives them a tremendous pleasure when they remove, extract or when they sow that fear that panic in the incarnated beings after that they are fed of that panic, it is like they had a tremendous banquet, but they don't need it because they have a necessity; it is a conceptual need nothing else.
Interlocutor: Isn’t it a survival need?
Morganel: No, no, not at all because in the moment that the Big Crunch takes place they are without a Creation, if they needed of feeding then they would be like abandoned.
Interlocutor: Yes, sure. Morganel, could it be that the Demiurge - mentioned by the three primordial beings - is only an energy unit of a very highest hierarchy in the Chaos?
Morganel: Yes he is. According to what we have investigated the Demiurge is the highest hierarchy in the Chaos. I would say in such a big level - I don't say elevated so that you don’t misunderstand it because in fact the Demiurge is a cruel creature, then I avoid saying the word "elevated", I say "big" - as big in power as the same Eon.
Interlocutor: Could there be other Demiurges in other areas, in the infinite sea of the Chaos? I mean, Couldn’t the Demiurge be unique as well as Eon is unique?
Morganel: It would be possible. We have also thrown our conceptual nets to try to perceive other entities of such energy magnitude and we have not perceived it yet. So, to our knowledge - very limited obviously and I recognize it - there is a single Eon and a single Demiurge. So far where we can perceive.
Interlocutor: Is the Demiurge a finite conscious being in the same sense that Eon is a finite conscious being?
Morganel: Yes, yes.
Interlocutor: He is also finite.
Morganel: It wouldn’t fit and I would like to be able to transmit an exact concept to this vessel although he has an excellent decoder while he translates my concept, I don't know how to transmit my exact concept so that he can transmit it with words, but so that you understand me, it would be illogical that there was a conscious unit of infinite energy; it is impossible. It is impossible because if God - Eon, The Absolute, was infinite and the Demiurge was infinite, both would have to trespass each other.
When you pour two liquids in a bottle the liquids can be mixed or not; the oil and the water, for instance, they cannot be mixed. You can put half liter of "A" and half liter of "B" in a bottle that has a capacity of 1 liter. You are not going to pour 1 liter of each liquid because it has to enter into that percentage that is: 400 and 600, 350 and 650, 500 and 500. On the other hand, if there were an infinite Eon and an infinite Demiurge in an infinite Chaos, they would not fit the numbers, speaking at material level.
Interlocutor: Yes, we fall into paradoxes of the infinite. The infinite is exactly infinite; it is not finite. They don’t have the same laws.
Morganel: However, if Eon occupied all the Creation and what is uncreated -then He could be infinite - if Eon occupied the Everything created and uncreated space- there he would be infinite, always speaking hypothetically - and if the Demiurge occupied the uncreated and what is created they would have to trespass each other and that cannot be; as well as you in the physical plane say that two bodies cannot occupy a single space, in the superphysical plane two concepts cannot occupy the same space either. You will say: "Yes, but you are not material"; it doesn't matter, we are not material but to our perception we occupy a place. Then two concepts cannot be in the same place. At the level of the magnitude of Eon and the Demiurge neither of them can occupy the same place.
Interlocutor: So, it keeps existing the interpenetrability, the possibility of not interpenetrate.
Morganel: Sure, because penetration is not only in the physical plane. In the physical plane is for the understanding of those who cannot glimpse further on. But penetrability exists in the superphysical planes although for you we are not matter. In fact we are not matter, but we have another composition.
Interlocutor: Yes we understand...
Morganel: And, keep in mind what you will say, I wanted to complete this idea...
Interlocutor: Please, go on.
Morganel: As well as the primordial beings can interact with the created universe, I understand humbly that the Demiurge can also do it commanding his hosts. And my reasoning is that in the same way Eon can move into the uncreated by a law that is called "correspondence" that many of you know it...
Interlocutor: Yes, it’s a hermetic principle.
Morganel: If there is a law of correspondence, if what is uncreated filters into the Creation, what is created can be infiltrated into the uncreated. It is a law of correspondence. Do you follow me until here?
Interlocutor: Yes, I understand.
Morganel: Perfect.
Interlocutor: If we understand the Everything like the Chaos plus the entirety of universes spread on that Chaos, Would there be some Eons that exist, one in each universe, and also Demiurges – we don't we know how many - spread in the Chaos? Could it be something like that?
Morganel: It could be something like that, but as I said before up until now with the sublime Johnakan we have only perceived the Father Eon and the Demiurge and the conceptual nets are thrown at a non appraisable distance for you.
Interlocutor: We are speaking of distances that we cannot even imagine.
Morganel: This is an inexact idea, it is simply so that those who understands about astronomical measures. Let’s suppose that the universe at this time has an expansion around 15 and 20 billions light years. It can be a kind of a conceptual probe, so that you understand me at 15 billions light years in the Nothingness where that universe has not yet been expanded and no other intelligence has been perceived at the level of the Demiurge.
Obviously no other than Eon either. That doesn't mean that there is no one because as well as you, in the physical plane, the more knowledge you learn, the more you realize what you still ignore, to us it happens exactly the same thing potentiated, we incorporate knowledge and every time we feel smaller. And we say it literally. Smaller, compared to all the incommensurable Chaos.
Interlocutor: Very well. Would it be that finiteness is a necessary attribute of any conscious entity no matter if it’s Eon or the Demiurge? I mean, Are there infinite conscious entities?
Morganel: The logical answer would be: I believe that it is a necessary attribute so that they can subsist. It would be impossible that they could subsist having an infinite concept. Anyways, we know that there is not an infinite concept as we believed before but for common sense, for logic - my logic doesn't mean that it is tangible and real; so, it’s debatable - but for a matter of coherence an energy entity has to have limitation in order to be keep existing.
Interlocutor: Then another question arises Morganel. Does it make any sense, whichever it is, to ask for the existence of an absolute conscious entity of the maximum hierarchy in the Everything, I mean, a conscious entity that embraces everything?
Morganel: For open-mindedness, as you refer to those people who leave open place to new ideas, I won't deny it, but since it’s not proved not even by us - investigators - I cannot neither give it for valid nor ratify the possibility. It’s not proved - and now I do copy myself from you, yes?- it remains with interrogation marks. It would be the possibility; it is not ratified. I have wondered many times if the same Father Eon is a conscious unit of finite energy - your finiteness is incommensurable because to your ears the word "finite" sound like something small and nothing more wrong – Notice that the Father occupies the whole universe you perceive and beyond; but I understand humbly that all finite energy tends to evolve and here I also make use of my common sense. The infinite doesn't evolve because it doesn't have where to evolve to or how to evolve, but all finite creatures evolve. It is my common sense.
Then, where does Eon go? Towards his own evolution and I understand that He "drags" us - because we have Free Will - but Eon drags us toward the same evolution, as if we were attached to a comet’s tail, figuratively speaking.
Interlocutor: Well, we will move on to another kind of questions. Morganel, you have told us recently that the physical time is not a geometric dimension in the same ontological level that geometric dimensions of the physical plane, length, width and height. From the beginning of the XX century the physical space has been modeled as a 4-dimensional continuum, the three geometric dimensions of the physical space and the physical time are unified in a geometric manifold of four dimensions simply called space-time.
Dear Masters, we understand that your statements dash to the ground the concept of space-time and with it the whole theory of Einstein about gravitation is shattered to pieces. Allow me to explain the reason. Does the concept of space-time have some physical reality?
Morganel: No. No because since gravity is not a fourth force, and time is not a dimension more, the rest is disintegrated...
Interlocutor: It remains on nothing?
Morganel: Correct.
Interlocutor: Let’s clear this up a little more. Then the concept of space-time lacks of physical reality.
Morganel: Yes.
Interlocutor: Does Einstein's statement make some physical sense when he said that the matter curves the space-time? And even more; Does it make some physical sense the statement of what we have called gravitation is only the space-time bending? How can the matter bend something which physical reality is doubtful or at least questionable?
Morganel: For that reason I take out from that bending time and gravity, so-to-speak, if somehow it bends the matter for an intrinsic attraction as well as it can deviate a light beam.
Interlocutor: And being like that, we should recognize in our ignorance about the physical effect that we have called gravitational phenomenon and we should recognize that we don't yet know what gravity is.
Morganel: Correct. Gravity could be called as a virtue or a defect that interacts with the mass. Interacts with the matter. That is to say, the same matter possesses a gravitational state; we would call it “state" not "force." A gravitational state. Besides I agree with what the Father Eon has commented - whenever the Father expresses we are -and here it is very figurative- "attentive" because it is the concept what we perceive, but so that you understand me and loosen a little bit this session - the Father denied that the matter could have an infinite mass at the speed of light and I understand why because the Father didn't finish it off. The reason would be with a question: Speed of light with regard to what? Because I have already said it in several opportunities that there are galaxies that are separating from each other at the speed of light and none of them reaches an infinite mass. Because if you go in a space ship between galaxies at the speed of light, it would be speed of light with regard to what; with regard to the galaxy A? With regard to the galaxy B? With regard to what I would go at the speed of the light?
For something to have speed, it has to be with regard to something and it is impossible that that something determines the substance of the other. If you are moving apart from me at the speed of the light, I would be the cause that you become yourself infinite mass being myself physical also? I would be "physicist B" and you would be "physicist A" and if you are going apart from me at the speed of light. Would I be the cause that your mass becomes infinite? Then, that sound absurd, not coherent because everything is with regard to something.
Then although the theory of relativity uses a lot the word "relativity" it is excellent to use it because everything is relative. Then we always have to ask with regard to what. When we say "The planet Jupiter is big." With regard to what? With regard to Mercury? Because with regard to Antares Jupiter is just a speck of dust full of gas. Do you understand? Everything is with regard to something.
Interlocutor: Morganel, then we could say that once again we have stuffed our ignorance with myths? We are referring to the space-time.
Morganel: I would not dare to call it myth. Generally in the ancient civilizations myths were fed with ignorance or the ignorance was fed with myths. I would replace the word myths for mistakes, for failed investigations, which are absolutely necessary after all because they will give place to new investigations. That is the important thing. That is absolutely important.
Many of you in the physical plane have something called creativity and that’s a merit of your own mental decoder which allows that one, as a thetan, gives ideas – I don't I like the word implant because engrams are implanted, ideas are offered yes?- but in the physical plane creativity is not enough. There is a motto of a very good writer that says: "Victory is achieved with creation and perspiration." We are exempt of that because we don't have physical shape, but in your plane it is worth it, creation and perspiration. If you are creative, but you don't put hands at work, that creativity will be sterile. If you have an arduous task but you don't have that creativity, that spark, you will have a meticulous task and nothing else.
Both things are necessary. So I give thanks to you that are incarnated because many times thanks to your restlessness we strive in our investigation and our investigation makes that you strive in your task. So it’s rewarded; there is correspondence.
Thank you for that correspondence. See you soon.
Interlocutor: Thank you, Morganel.

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